06-24-2010 03:32 PM
Hello! My name is Liz Burns. I started at Juniper Networks just three weeks ago as the new Sr Manager responsible for the Juniper Networks Certification Program (JNCP). This is a very exciting time of growth and change at Juniper, and I am very happy to be here, working with this excellent group of network professionals.
Over the next several months you will see growth and value added change in the JNCP. We are looking for your input so please add to this discussion. Talk about what your JNCP designation has done for you, what designation you are currently seeking and what you would like Juniper to do in support of our JNCP network professionals.
Look forward to hearing from you!
06-25-2010 03:23 AM
Thank you for the response. What do you mean by "Not say if we are holding more than on certification"?
06-27-2010 11:17 PM
Thanks a lot for giving us a open forum to discuss and listen to our views on Juniper Certification Program.
My suggestions with regards to Juniper certification is the expert level certs are more towards product centric than technology centric and the update to the programs are not very frequent with regards to the pace at which juniper technlogy is moving ahead.
I mean there should be like JNCIE-ERS which covers juniper's enterprise routing & switching which can enable a juniper certified candidate to depploy juniper enterprise routing & switching solutions.
And similarly for the JNCIE-SEC which is much awaited I hope it would be a complete juniper security expert cert covering entire juniper security product portfolio like srx,idp,strm & UAC. making a true juniper security product expert who can deploy any juniper security solution rather than just a srx expert.
What I see in the market is there is a huge response for juniper certs but the drawback is the availability of the equippments to practise for the candidates. there only a few online remote racks available and ofcourse they are very expensive.
A training simulator like dynamips which boosted cisco certifications in mass volumes because people could work on real ios on pc to learn the technology well which motivated them as it didnt cost much to work on a simulator.
Today most of the JNCIE's are juniper employees because they had access to the gear to prepare for the LAB. Today the biggest challenge in positioning juniper's product in the Indian Market is availability of skilled juniper resources in the market. I am sure a simulator kind of thing for junos like dynamips would really change the game and there will be a huge no. of people opting for the expert level certs of juniper.
I hope my views have not offended anyone.
Thanks & regards
06-29-2010 02:31 AM - edited 06-29-2010 02:33 AM
First allow me to apologise for the length of this post!
I strongly agree with Sushilmenon. Having used mainly Cisco products I had hoped that self-study for the lower range of Juniper certifications would be a similar process.
Juniper are clearly positioned in a market that is not designed for the home user – but this causes problems when trying to get access to training and equipment to practice on. With Cisco the average person can simply pick up some second hand switches or routers on Ebay and settle down with a couple of books to start learning. I doubt that anyone on this forum will be purchasing a sole EX 4200 to play on with the average cost on Ebay starting at around £2500.
In the absence of affordable practice hardware we look for rack time – this is rare and again fairly expensive with £50 an hour. You’re limited to exactly what is on offer which might not match up what you’re interested in learning.
The next option is to find a good software simulation package like Dynamips and as stated previously this does not exist. The only thing close to is Olive which is unsupported, uses an old JunOS and requires you to “source” that OS in a rather dubious fashion.
The Fast Track program is an excellent start and shows a generosity of spirit that I wish Cisco would take note of.
Looking at the certification page is a challenge for someone new to Juniper. So many tracks are listed and the demarcation of Enterprise and Service Provider is a little confusing for someone trying to decide what to try on their own. Ideally I’d like to see all JNCIA exams achievable with self-study materials. Take the very top cert in the list as an example – “Intro to Junos Track”. Aha! an intro – that must be what I should look at first – and then you see it comes with a recommended $2800 worth of courses. This does not inspire enthusiasm in those of us who land on this page out of curiosity.
It would be very useful to have something on the Cert page that essentially says “are you new to Juniper?” and a suggested (ie self studying) route – you really need a starter qualification that is as ubiquitous as the CCNA. It’s easy to search jobs for and it’s easy for an employer to know what to expect from someone who has it. With 12 different listed tracks for JNCIA it’s almost impossible to identify someone with the potential to fit a job role, let alone for a candidate to know which one to start with.
Make it easier for employers to find qualified staff and I’m sure it will be easier to increase Juniper penetration. I can assure you that companies do not like buying things that commit them to spending vast amounts of money training staff to be able to perform basic support on them (they are often quite happy however to buy you some books, have the odd day of study leave and pay for an exam!). What might be the right product for the job at hand is sadly not always the main consideration when it comes to purchase.
06-29-2010 05:20 AM
Thanks for the excellent feedback. Some of these ideas we have already started to talk about so good to know we are on the right track.. There are some changes currently being made around the certification framework. You can see the preliminary announcement of this on our certification website (http://www.juniper.net/us/en/training/certificatio
06-29-2010 05:25 AM
Love the length of the post! Again, a lot of good comments for us. Your comments on the website are very timely as I am in long meetings just today with our web and social media team to discuss changes to the website and ways we can leverage social media to bring value to our certified audience.
Anyone have good ideas on how to leverage social media beyond J-Net?
06-29-2010 05:47 AM
Using sites like LinkedIn would undoubtably have a focused impact. It's specifically designed to leverage industry contacts and knowledge.
Other more popular social sites like Facebook don't really feel like the most appropriate place for career development. I personally keep my Facebook completely separate from anything to do with my employers. Out of the six friends who deal with networking in companies, only one of us can access Facebook at work as many places tend to filter it thanks to its time-wasting potential
Twitter can be useful if narrowly focused. I'd want an update if there was new training material available, I'd certainly not want to get messages about a new product line revision.
06-29-2010 05:50 AM
I'd like to see:
1) JNCIE-SEC - There is a lot of anticipation for this exam.
2) Exams lasting for longer than 2 years, if you have several tracks you are pretty much constantly taking exams.
3) Much like Cisco do, I think that if you pass an exam on another track at the equivilent or higher level, it should automatically refresh your other tracks. For example, if I have a JNCIS-SEC, I'd like passing my JNCIS-ER to refresh the SEC exam automatically. This keeps us happy, as well as promoting new learning.
4) The new pass grades of 85% are a little steep? perhaps somewhere between the new mark and the old 70%?
5) In my region of the UK there are hardly any prometric test centres, I have to travel 2 hours or more to Birmingham or Bristol. It would be nice to have the oppertunity to use Vue instead.
My career is based upon Juniper products, and having the certs is a requirement of my job. Point 3 would really make my life easier...
06-29-2010 05:53 AM
Thanks. I agree with your comments on the FB versus LinkedIn. You will see a LinkedIn group for JNCP soon. Same with Twitter. I am setting up a JNCP acct that myself and the SMEs on my team will have access to. We will use this forum to do quick announcements on changes, interesting news, publications etc. Will announce the availability of this Twitter acct, when available, here.
What about webcasts on a semi regular basis - JNCI SME to JNCI SME. Basically have recognized JNCIx's (most likely P and E level) present topics that they are knowledable in to the rest of the certified community? An informal learning session.
06-29-2010 06:06 AM
Webcasts would be great - making sure they're archived and accessible afterwards would be even better. Let us download them in so we can transfer to other media. I'd find it great to transfer it to my Ipod to listen to walking the dog or watch whilst travelling and even better to just hand to my colleagues on a usb stick.
07-06-2010 11:41 AM
Valuable input so far on this thread. If you have not yet given us your feedback please take a minute now to engage in this discussion.
07-06-2010 11:23 PM
I would like to add by saying that can we have expert sessions on specific technologies from juniper like cisco's netpro.
Where in every week a juniper guy from a specific technology domain expertise is ready to answer queries related to that technology or product.
Just my thoughts
Thanks & Regards
07-07-2010 04:14 AM
Great idea Sushil. We are actually working on something like that - regular webcasts, on technical topics delivered available to Juniper Certified. In addition to Juniper SME's doing the presenations what to you think of allowing those who are Juniper certified, knowledgeable and interested to also present - sort of JNCIP/E to JNCIx?
07-08-2010 07:55 AM
That would be a great idea too. But i would suggest experts from juniper would be great. as people would be asking technical & non-technical queries in the forum from the experts. so validated answers by juniper experts would sound more accurate.
One thing i would like to add is that yes jncie's and jncip's from the industry can surely post technical documents on best practices, smaller design guides and so.
For juniper i see most of the documentation explains more on the configuration and usage of the commands part.
validated design guides on enterprise technologies as juniper best practices would be really great and helpful to partners & learners to implement juniper technologies. this would surely bring in a lot of interaction on the blog from the community.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks & Regards
07-18-2010 05:40 AM
I think JNCIP-M or JNCIP-SP should "not" be a pre-requisite for JNCIE-SP/M. If candidates can challenge JNCIE lsb directly, they should have that option. Two lab exams are pretty expensive for folks like me whose companies do not reimburse certification costs.
07-22-2010 01:36 PM
I'm from east-Europe, so most of my insights are kinda cost-related...
In my experience, nobody really asks for certifications here, and so nobody pays for studying or exams. As such, $2700 courses are a show stopper for me; that's more than 2 months salary...
I started to learn Junos because of the Fast-track program, and I loved the availability of the free study resources. After that, I don't understand the "Introduction to the Junos CLI" course for 300 bucks... You already provide CLI courses for free...
As for hardware availability: I've got to agree with the others, there's no hardware. The only thing I could afford on Ebay was a Netscreen-5XP, which helped me in my job, but it's not Junos. And my company won't buy me an SRX just to play around.
I'd love to see the number of certificaion tracks decreasing, or at least the ability to renew multiple certificates with one exam.
Technical education - courses webpage: an RSS feed, please... And the "Enterprise" and "Service provider" tabs are converging into one: for example, the service provider page has SRX100 courses, which is a small-office device...
Sorry if it was a bit too random...
07-23-2010 04:05 AM
Great move .hope these efforts don't hang-up in the middle.
Folks here would agree with me that the customer is always shaky about adapting juniper products because he has no idea what so ever about the technical deployment, operation and might face trouble finding staff which can run and manage the system. While on the counterside , networking staff might already be CCIE certified.Trained, certified Cisco resources are readily available(as compared to any other vendor).
Besides other valuable suggestions folks have put up, I hav a few.
1-The idea of webinars is great,it also needs little more organization.There should be a pattern,that the topic of the webinar be followed on the certification or official course outline.so in each session one topic is completely covered. Staring from beginner and moving towards advanced topics.All products ranges (specially security SSG,SA,IDP)should be covered gradually.Either juniper instructors or experts from industry can present.Both new technologies as well as existing technologies should be discussed.
2-Archiving should be very proper, there must be a dedicated portal(like jpartnertraining.juniper.net) which holds past events with relevant study material.e.g Juniper summer school was a nice event (still waiting for the event this year) but the archive is made available by a forum member here http://forums.juniper.net/jnet/board/message?board
3-CBT has been the most intuitive format for self paced learning, I guess because of its similarity to the natural way instructor lead training.Plus it offers a combination of theoretical details of the subject followed by a practical hands on example.The slide based tutorials with accompanying audio script is not that effective, although something is better than nothing.CBT nuggets offers quite a number of networking titles and is quite famous as well.They have one juniper title under development JNCIA-JUNOS (http://secure.cbtnuggets.com/series?id=659).But I cannot say would it be up to mark.What I would suggest is ,juniper would arrange their best instructors and partner with cbtnuggets(so that this juniper product reaches current networking customer base of cbtnuggets ) or through any other CBT platform they like.
Thanks very much
07-23-2010 04:28 AM
Thanks Net-Works. I am looking at all the thoughts/ideas in this discussion as I move forward on strategy for the JNCP and on the JNCIx exclusive J-Net community.
As I go to our Social Media group with a proposal for the JNCIx Exclusive J-Net Community I need to present topic and content ideas for them. As you say - we want consistant and valuable content available to the members to spur discussion/learning. Any ideas on specific topics of interest are welcome!!!